Can you be a Christian and Support Same Sex Marriage?

I think so, yes.

Source

 

Since today is the first day to early vote in my state, I thought I would share a bit about my views on being a Christian and also supporting same sex marriage.

I am not a theology scholar by a long shot, I am just throwing that out there.  I am only slightly familiar with the passages that condemn homosexuality in the bible.  And I won't bore you with the tired arguments that people make for and against these passages.  The bible is full of contradictions, I am well aware.  Being an Orthodox Christian, our premise and goal is to keep the ancient faith.  The church that Jesus himself established 2000+ years ago is what we strive to stay true to.  So that is my background as far as my religious point of view.

I am also a big fan of separation of church and state.  Even though I am a Christian and so are a lot of other people, I don't think everyone is doing it right.  Nor do I think there could never be a time when the majority of citizens in this country are Jewish, or Muslim.  You never know.  So I like the fact that we are all equally protected to do as we please under our constitution, and have the right to be left alone as we do it. 

So yeah.  Marriage.  I remember dreaming about being married and how awesome it would be when I was single.  Love and romance and the comfort of knowing they too wanted to be with me for forever.  And eventually we will have a little family of our own, and go to Disney World, and be so happy, for forever.  Easy right?  I don't mean to shatter any dreams of any single readers, but this is where the record player comes screeching to a halt.  Being married is really hard sometimes.  Most days it is great, and I come home and my favorite person is there to make me laugh, or hear about the latest work drama.  But then sometimes when we are on day 3 of picking fights with each other about really dumb stuff, I just want to scream f* this!  and then go back to my cozy little apartment and live my single life again, and not have to think about anyone but me. 

Marriage is one of 7 holy sacraments in my church.  "In every sacrament there is a combination of an outward visible sign with an inward spiritual grace." (source)  So basically it is like a gift from God for our salvation.  Most of the church stuff we do, is for our own healing.  We are taught that man is in a fallen state, we are all sinners, and the church is our hospital.  So when we attend services on Sunday, fast during certain times, confess and repent our sins; they are all to make us better Christians.  The whole point of it is to kill your own ego, and obey God.  Because what you want at any given instant is usually bad for your soul, and/or the easy way out.  Screaming obscenities and leaving is the easy way out of the challenge of being married.  But if I stay and love Aaron even when it is super hard for me, learn to accept him and respect him as my husband, I am being a better person, a better Christian, and making God happy.  And keeping my ego in check.  I know nothing, and I forget that a lot.  Is anyone a fan of Sisterwives, like I am?  While I think Polygamy is ridiculous, I can see from a vantage point how sharing a husband can be beneficial for your soul in an ego killing way.  You don't have to just love someone when they are frustrating you to your core, you have to deal with jealousy too.  It is ridiculous because of course the man doesn't have to fight the same fights you do, I think his ego only gets bigger with the more wives he gets.  I digress.

So if homosexuality is a sin, I guess it is a sin.  But it shouldn't be demonized any more than every other sin that you are sinning.  They are all one in the same.  We all have crosses to bear in our spiritual life, some bigger than others.  I am a glutton.  Sometimes I am a liar.  I get really angry sometimes.  I don't love my neighbor anywhere near as much as I should.  I am selfish.  I covet.  My name is Natalie, and I am a sinner.  And really, according to Aaron who is the closest person I know to being a Bible scholar, only the act of man on man 'adult activity' is specifically condemned per the bible. 

I posed a question to Aaron the other day, as I often do, and it was a conundrum.  If two people of the same sex are married, and are learning the tough lessons of martyrdom to your spouse just as we are; isn't that better (less sinful, if even) than a same sex or even heterosexual person getting down all around town with whomever?  We couldn't come up with a good answer, but my gut says yes. 

I don't know what is a condemnable offense, or what the bible specifically says, or if that is conveying what God even means when he made these 'laws' of life.  But I do know that the overall theme of the entire book, and the entire church is to love one another. 

Romans 13: 8-10
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. ⁹ For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,”^[a] “You shall not covet,”^[b] and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”^{[c] 10} Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

So as I see it, if you are doing things with love, you are obeying God.  Simple as that.   

As the state sees my marriage, is quite another thing.  Aaron and I can file a joint tax return and get a little tax break.  I can visit him in the hospital.  I can have his social security benefits if he dies before me.  We are each responsible for each other's debts.  Plus a dozen other things depending on your personal situation.  It is just a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo.  And frankly, I don't want any church business involved in it.  And I don't see any reason aside from a church reason why this couldn't apply to any two consenting adults.  If a church wants to deny people who want to be married, I think that is within their rights, but there should be no reason for the government to deny that to its citizens. 

So that is my two cents.  I will be casting my vote for the Democrats this year.  Don't you just love politics and religion on a wedding blog?  LOL

I understand.  lol

Wedding Crowns on Display

I totally forgot to share with you guys, the gift that my Mom made for Aaron and I for Easter:

Love!

Close Up

She mounted our wedding crowns in a shadow box with our wedding program!  Love love love!  It is tradition to display your wedding crowns in your home after the wedding as a reminder that "God has united them to each other and to Himself and that He has bestowed His grace upon them to live in unity, faith and love." (http://www.antiochian.org/1285), so I am glad we can now partake thanks to my Mom's handiness with all things crafty.  Thank you Mom!!

Wedding Crowns

We ordered our wedding crowns last week, and they have arrived!  We ordered from www.orthodoxweddingcrowns.com, and they came really quickly!  And they are just as beautiful as the picture:

St. Julia-Silver

The “St. Julia-Silver” crowns feature a stunning display of unique design, mixed with traditional qualities. Intricately woven silver thread/wire winds around baby pearls (faux pearls), creating a wonderfully rich design you won’t find anywhere else.

I have the St. Julia crowns attached with double-sided white Satin ribbon, and have been formed into traditional circular, 7” diameter crowns.

Source: www.orthodoxweddingcrowns.com

It was super difficult to decide which style we wanted, they are all gorgeous!  I am happy with our decision though.  We also ordered the small replica crowns to use as our cake topper, then as an ornament on our Christmas tree :)

Here is a nice overview of why the Orthodox wear wedding crowns:

http://www.orthodoxweddingcrowns.com/crownhistory.php

and here

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Marriage

Office of crowning

The second part of the service is the ceremony of coronation, in which the heads of the bridegroom and bride are crowned by the priest. In the Russian tradition, the crowns are gold or silver, while the Greek tradition uses crowns of leaves and flowers.
The crowns are crowns of joy, but also crowns of martyrdom, since marriage involves a self-sacrifice on both sides.
At the end of the service the newly married couple drink from the same cup of wine. This common cup is a symbol of the fact that after this they will share a common life with one another. This also recalls the miracle at the marriage feast of Cana in Galilee.


Yay, I am getting excited, we have just about 2 months to go!  Eeek!

The Long Walk Down the Aisle

I am happy to report that I have requested my grandpa (Buelo) to escort me down the aisle on the big day.  I am so glad that he is willing and able, and honored even.  :)

::a Natalie and Buelo pic will go here once scanned::

Figuring who to ask was troublesome to say the least.  I really considered walking alone, I mean, I'll be 30 years old by then, I am an independent woman!  Roar!!  lol.

I am glad my Buelo is up to it, but had he not been, my Dad has three wonderful brothers and two brothers in law that I am certain would have been delighted to give me away had I asked.  I just wouldn't know how to begin to decide between them.

And I thought about my little brother.  He would have been a good option too, but he is in the wedding as one of the groomsmen, which I think is the best place for a brother to be.  I just thought it would feel weird to be given away by my little bro, the one I look out for and give unsolicited advice to.

Then I thought about my Mom.  We are best friends.  She was Mom and Dad since I was 11.  She would be the most appropriate to give me away.  But I wanted my actual  Dad to be somehow represented, so Buelo seemed like a better choice.  Plus being Mother of the Bride is an important thing in and of itself.  I want her to have her time to go down the aisle before me and get ooh-ed and ahh-ed and 'doesn't she look lovely-ed' at.  If she walked with me she'd totally steal my thunder!  I am joking, but you get the picture.

For those of you who don't know the story, the reason my Dad isn't around to walk me down the aisle himself is because he passed away back in 1993 from cancer.  It was hard and horrible, but time heals your pain as well as it can.  I miss him so very much, but this whole getting married thing really makes the void so much bigger seeming.  I wonder if he would have liked Aaron.  I wonder what advice he'd give us about marriage.  I wonder what he'd look like as a 59 year old.  I wonder what song we would have danced to.  I know that he is always with me, figuratively speaking.  It is just a bummer with no one to blame.  I think some things you just never get over.  Though if life hadn't unfolded the way it did, who knows what my life would be today.  I can say for sure that I am pretty glad for where I am today, so that is something.

Miss you, Dad.

The 4 CH's - Marriage Counseling with Fr Joseph

Source

In the Orthodox faith, we don't have a series of pre-martial sessions, we knock it out in an hour!  But a lot can be learned in that hour, which is good.  Last night we met with Fr. Joseph Honeycutt for our session.  Fr. Joseph used to be a priest at our church, but was reassigned to a different church in town.  Our head priest from St. George (our church) used to be Fr. John, but he got reassigned to Oklahoma - which is why we went to see Fr. Joseph.  Anyway, the point of the meeting was to discuss the mundane parts of marriage.  Fr. Joesph presented them in a concise manner of - the 4 CH's

CHeckbook:
Fr. Joseph (and everyone) says the #1 problem he sees with couples is in regards to money.  Some are savers, some are spenders, yadda yadda yadda.  Aaron and I are pretty aware of each other's attitudes about money, and our typical spending habits, the amounts of debt we each have.  I am really grateful that we can openly discuss finances - because it can be so easy to skirt the issue or attempt to hide those maxed out credit cards or that giant student loan.  Fr. Joseph basically suggested that we have one of us be responsible for making sure all the bills get paid, and we have one pot of where all the money goes into.  It is ok to have separate accounts, but there should be no secrecy about how much money is there, and especially how it is being spent because that can cause some serious tension/mistrust etc. that is damaging to your union.  You can't be a psycho about it either though, demanding accountability of every dime, because you don't want that to cause a rift either.   But it was mentioned that transparency has never been a bad thing in a marriage.

CHores
This topic wasn't covered in as much depth as the checkbook, but we talked about the spitting of the household duties.  We discussed how, sure, things are easy now when you just have to tidy up 600 sq ft of mess created by only 2 people, but one day when we have a house and a yard and all of that, it is going to become more of a challenge and we are going to need to help each other.  Though typically, and I don't think we will be the exception, the woman is the neater one(Lord, help us!).  We touched on communication styles a bit in this regard as well.  Am I more direct/passive aggressive when I need something done or help.  It was concluded that the direct approach works well for us - if it is mess we both helped to create, it shouldn't be an issue of asking the other to help in a polite manner.  We also talked about the subtle annoyances.  How there will be certain things about another person that drive you up the wall.  Fr. Joseph had a funny story about how he really likes the toilet paper to roll from the bottom, and his wife doesn't care one way or another.  Well even though she doesn't care, it is just her habit to put it on rolling from the top.  Well instead of going insane about it, Fr. Joseph decided - "I can just change the roll if it bothers me so much."  I can already tell you that things like this will probably sprout in Aaron and I's marriage.  I partially blame that fact that we are both going to be 30 years old and stuck in our ways of doing things, others are probably laziness or living by ourselves for too long!  It'll be an adjustment, but we just have to keep in mind that little menial stuff isn't going to change most likely, so either get over it or change it yourself.   

CHildren
This topic hasn't been discussed in great detail by Aaron and I, mainly just that we want kids, and we want to wait about a year after we marry to start trying for them.  Aaron totally threw me under the bus though and told Fr. Joseph that I was obsessed with babies.  I just love children and babies because they are so adorable and fun.  I am a girl, give me a break!  But yes, we talked about how having children is a big major change in your life and relationship.  Sure I love babies and think they are so cute, but Fr. Joseph was clear in saying that when the children come, that is when marriage really starts to feel like work, and you can really see what your made of as a couple.  And it may not be pretty, and we may be surprised to find that we weak people.  But we are here to lift each other up and help each other out, and we can't lose sight of that.  Also once they get older, we need to come together as far as our child rearing philosophy and back each other up.  Kids are smart and they will play us against each other like fiddles if we don't have a unified approach on things.  I feel like I got some good insight, but mostly it makes me want to make sure we are really really ready before we go down that road to parenthood.

CHanges
Lastly we discussed changes.  The people we marry in January aren't going to be the same in 5 years, or after children, or as we grow old together.  We talked about ways that he and I are there for each other, and what we bring to the relationship table.  I haven't ever been in a relationship that was significantly long term or anything, but from what I know of my long term friendships, this is absolutely true.  My best friend from high school is not the same girl as she was when we were 15, my best friend from college isn't the same girl that she was when we were 20.  I am certainly not the same as I was when I was younger.  Sure there are some things about us that are inherently who we are, but the more we learn and continue on a path we are on, we wind up in a different place.  Even if you stand completely still, the rest of the world is still moving.  So I think with this challenge the important things are flexibility, understanding, and managed expectations.  Flexibility in knowing they will change in some form or fashion, understanding for the reasons for change (and hopefully the changes are for the better), and managed expectations for things that may never change, though you might wish they would.  Like if you were marrying someone who thinks it is acceptable to go out in public in gym shorts, or socks with sandals for instance. 


These conversations we all had were merely intended to be a starting point for Aaron and I to continue upon.  I feel like we got some good advice and prospective on what marriage is going to take.  I really enjoyed meeting with Fr. Joseph, and hearing his humorous anecdotes about marriage. 


Fr. Joseph actually has a bunch of podcasts on Orthodox topics on Ancient Faith Radio - I've added the links below on his talks about marriage if anyone is interested!

http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodixie/just_an_old_fashioned_love_song
http://ancientfaith.com/podcasts/orthodixie/me_adam_you_helpmeet

Conversion completed

I'm Orthodox, ya'll!

It is with great joy that I can say I am officially an Orthodox Christian!  I got Chrismated last night along with two of my fellow converts.  Chrismation is sort of the Orthodox version of confirmation.  They do a short ceremony and we hold candles and read the service and get anointed with holy oil.  It was very nice, and I am so happy to be a part of the church that I have grown to truly love after catechism and attending with Aaron for such a long time.  

So for those interested in the process of becoming Orthodox, here is the process:

*Attend some services, meet the people, maybe read some books on Orthodoxy

*Convey your interest to the priest at your church, they will meet with you and let you know some basics and what being Orthodox is like, and other theological things

*Attend catechism.  Once your priests rounds up some interested parties, you'll meet (ours was weekly for about 3 months) and learn all about the Church and Orthodoxy and what we believe.

*After catechism was done, we were encouraged to get involved - attend bible studies, meet fellow parishioners, join the choir, volunteer in the different ministries they offer.

*Attend church services regularly, for between 6 months to a year

*Get a Sponsor/God parent, pick a patron saint

*Go to confession

*Get Chrismated

Your soul is now saved!  ;)

My patron saint I chose is Maria Skobtsova of Paris, for several reasons, some are dumb/silly...

*In Orthodoxy, you celebrate your saint's day, and hers is July 20th.  My birthday and Christmas, and future anniversary etc.  is all in December/January and I wanted a good reason to celebrate something in the off season

*My middle name is Marie, Maria=Marie, pretty similar

*She lived in Paris, and I totally love French things

*She is a new saint - circa 2004, and I am a new Orthodox Christian 

*She seems like she was a really hip lady - she was a poet, into politics and literary circles with intellectuals.  She is like my 1920's hero, lol

Source

Ok, now that I am done trying to recruit you all...lol  But seriously, if you have any questions or want some suggestions of things to read on the subject, I'd be glad to help (and so would Aaron because he knows a billion times more things about it than me!)

A Letter to Fr John

This is a little late, but...

Two weeks ago, I sent this letter to Fr John, the head priest at our church:

Hi Fr. John, 

I emailed you a while back about reserving January 28th for Aaron Hinkley and I's wedding, and I just had some questions I was hoping you could help me with. 

1. As far as time goes, you had mentioned 4:30 was the latest we could schedule the ceremony?  Just wanted to confirm this.  How long does a ceremony generally last?

2. Are there any certain rules of decorations and things that we should be aware of for decorating the ceremony space?

3. I have never attended an Orthodox wedding, Aaron had told me that we have wedding crowns that we wear for part of the ceremony, is there anything else we need to provide for the ceremony?  And also, I'd like to have a ceremony programs sort of explaining the ceremony (most of our guests will have not been to an Orthodox wedding ceremony) - do you know of a good resource to find this information, or maybe have an example of one?

4. Do we need to provide music?

5. Costs for ceremony?

6. Will the church be available in the afternoon for photos? (we are planning to take them beforehand I think, if we can)

7. Fr. Symeon had mentioned something about meeting for pre-marriage classes, or something along those lines - is that something offered/recommended that couples do?

I think that is all I had for now, sorry there are so many - I am a crazy planner! :) Thank you for all your help!

Natalie Martinez

His response was:

I think we should set up a meeting.

lol

So we did just that, and had a meeting with Fr John last Saturday.

SO helpful!

I got this handy packet of info, all of my questions (for now) answered, AND 2 wedding videos of ceremonies that took place at our church!

In case you ever wondered how to have an Orthodox wedding, here you go! (click the image for a larger view)

Catechism Update

My homeboy, Jesus.

I just realized that I have not talked about catechism class yet!  So far I have been to two classes, so it is still fairly new to me.  It is cool meeting people in the church.  A knows a bunch of them, but he has trouble in the friendliness department on Sundays (and add to that the fact that 'everyone has their own agenda' - per new friend Olga)  So due to all the new people meeting, I am beginning to get a much better sense of community at church, which is cool.  Class is fairly interesting.  Week one, A tagged along with me and we just went over basic things about God and Orthodox Christianity.  It was a little all over the place, so we touched on creation, and demons, and all kinds of random things.  Week two was better as far as knowing what is going on and what we are learning about.  Week two was mostly about sin, and what the Orthodox view is on the matter.  And I also learned that I should believe that animals don't have souls.  They have a life force/energy, but not an immortal soul like people.  So that's why there is a separate heaven for dogs.  I was always confused on the matter.  **Also, please note that I am only rehashing what I am learning in this class.  I respect you completely if you believe in something different or nothing at all.  I am no theologian, I just work here!

So yeah, class is good.  I am really looking forward to this week's class because we are going to talk about the different stuff that happens during liturgy (Sunday church service).  Because I am totally lost in that area - I only can kind of tell what is going on about 64% of the time.  Yay for clarity! 

Time to get Orthodoxed

I misspelled on my calendar, my bad.

Tonight at 7pm, I start catechism.  I am kind of stoked.  I mean, I am excited to learn about the Orthodox faith, so maybe I don't feel like such an outsider when I go to church with A.  This whole converting thing is what makes all of this seem for real to me.  But anyway.  The Orthodox faith is partially similar to Catholicism - which is what my family is - and the other part of it is totally foreign, and ...looking for a nice word to say weird...I don't know.  I mean, I know Catholicism is weird to people who don't know how it goes - so I am trying to keep an open mind and let myself get used to it.  As it goes, I am particularly frazzled because of Lent.  In the Catholic church, when Lent comes around you just pick something you want to give up, and try really hard not to have it for the 40 days ( The forty days represent the time that, according to the Bible, Jesus spent in the desert before the beginning of his public ministry, where he endured temptation by Satan.)  ((And yes, I know it is sad, but I had to look that up in wikipedia.))  But yeah, I try at first, but I am lucky if I last a week.  So in short, it is nothing that I took all that seriously.  Lent was just a time to chow down on Cadbury Eggs until Easter.



<3



Lent in Orthodoxy is bigtime.  They fast for 40 days (actually it is 49 this year, but who's counting?) So that means A and I are sort of vegans.  No Meat, Fish, Dairy, Oil.  (Some days you can have oil)  We can eat shellfish though, so that is something.  Actually, I love shrimp a lot, and once I said to my bestie Kat that I wish I could eat shrimp everyday.  She said that I was an adult and I could if I wanted to, to which I replied yeah, but it would get expensive and I might get mercury poisoning over time, so it isn't feasible.  But looks like my dreams are somewhat coming true.  lol.  But yeah, this time in the Church is very serious and like spiritually cleansing I think.  So I guess during this time, Fr. S thought it is the perfect time to convert myself and a few other interested parties into Orthodoxy. 

The weird thing happened yesterday, which when I think more about it, is kind of nice I suppose, but man.  I was given zero warning about what the Forgiveness Sunday vespers was all about.  We had the church service, and then we had to line up and ask forgiveness of everyone in the church.  Individually.  And kiss them on the cheek.  A threw this at me as a 'by the way...' as we were lining up.  Had I mentally perpared a bit, I think things would have gone better, but I was like in panic mode supreme.  I don't have social anxiety to the point where I need a therapist or anything - but I am not a big fan of getting in personal space of those I don't know.  And I definitely am not a happy camper when I am put in a situation of impending uncomfortableness.  A made a fair point that noone really likes kissing strangers and stuff, but the meaning behind it is nice, so we should focus on that.  So I was a trooper, and I asked/gave forgiveness to 60 or so different strangers while my face was hot and my palms were sweating profusely.  A assured me that Forgiveness Sunday is as weird as it gets, but I don't know if I can trust him now, lol.  A is going to come with me tonight for the first class so it will be a little less scary.  

The Forgiveness Sunday is the kickoff of the Great Lent fast, and I usually will go veg with A during this time to show solidarity.  But I imagine Fr. S will think it is a good idea to participate.  I mean, this is going to be my life now, so may as well get it going.  I went through a vegetarian/vegan stage in college, so I totally am not worried about not sticking with it.  But yeah, besides the church incident yesterday, I am mostly excited about the process and looking forward to all I will be learning during catechism and also during this Lenten season.  Only 48 more days until Cadbury Eggs! ;)

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lent

Orthodox Lent has its own Wikioedia page if you are interested in reading more! 







A Meeting with Fr. S

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I had my first meeting with Fr. S on Monday regarding the wedding and becoming Orthodox.  I wish I had more to say, but the meeting was very basic.  He asked me about my church background (which is minimal) and my family.  I got a rundown of how the Orthodox wedding ceremonies go, and a little history of that.  Then he was explaining the process of becoming "some church jargon word" into the church (converting).  I will have to meet with him and take classes about the history and practice of the faith.  It was also suggested that A and I go to pre-marital counciling with Fr. J, the other preist at church.  That should be interesting!  Then he was explaining what the foundation for Orthodoxy is: it is about healing(from sin?), and to lead a good, simple life of prayer.  Then he asks me if we had any plans for the reception or whatnot yet - so I felt saying super deluxe Hotel Zaza party was inappropriate, and just said we weren't sure yet.  But overall, the meeting was a good outline of what is in store for me, and I feel pretty eager to get on board with all of it.

But, Hotel Zaza and Orthodox Christianity seem to contradict one another... :\